{"id":1403,"date":"2018-11-15T18:11:40","date_gmt":"2018-11-15T18:11:40","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.andcouldheplay.com\/?p=1403"},"modified":"2018-11-15T18:11:40","modified_gmt":"2018-11-15T18:11:40","slug":"what-would-no-trophy-for-jurgen-klopp-mean","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.andcouldheplay.com\/what-would-no-trophy-for-jurgen-klopp-mean\/","title":{"rendered":"What Would No Trophy For J\u00fcrgen Klopp Mean?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>What do we all want from football? It\u2019s the most important question we can ask, isn\u2019t it? What do we actually expect from the game that we all love so much that we give up hours of our lives to watch? Think about it; a match lasts for 90 minutes plus stoppage and there are thirty-eight of them during the course of a season. If you only watched the club\u2019s league fixtures and ignored cup games and European nights then you\u2019d give up three thousand four hundred and twenty minutes a year, presuming you don\u2019t want to include stoppage time nor the half-time interval. Add in an average of three minutes of stoppage time and the fifteen minutes between halves and you\u2019re looking at four thousand one hundred and four minutes, or sixty-eight point four hours. That\u2019s just shy of three days that you\u2019ll have spent watching football. Not travelling to matches, not having a drink before or after the game and not talking about it, just watching games play out.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-partner=\"tweetdeck\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">Klopp is taking our club in the right direction. Soon enough, this season even, trophies will come. Liverpool means more.<\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Eric LFC &#x1f3c6;&#x1f3c6;&#x1f3c6;&#x1f3c6;&#x1f3c6; (@_lfcEric) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/_lfcEric\/status\/1060995987592880128?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">November 9, 2018<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\u201cutf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>Are we really comfortable with saying that a season that ends without silverware has been a wasted one? Are we all happy to say that we\u2019ve thrown away around three days out of our year for absolutely no reason? Does the fun we\u2019ve had along the way, the moments celebrating goals or applauding excellent play truly count for nothing if we don\u2019t get to see the captain lift a shiny thing? If so then I\u2019ve got news for you; the fact is that Liverpool haven\u2019t won a trophy since 2012. As a result we\u2019ve wasted six seasons, or around eighteen days, on nothing. That\u2019s without even adding in those cup runs that I\u2019ve mentioned. I can\u2019t even begin to figure out the maths on adding those games into the equation, but I would suggest that it probably moves the dial closer to a month of frivolous nothingness. Personally I feel as though life is too short to say that it\u2019s nothing but a waste of time if success doesn\u2019t come at the end of it. The question is, then, is J\u00fcrgen Klopp a failure if he doesn\u2019t lift a trophy during his time at Anfield?<\/p>\n<h2>Opposition Fans Would Say So<\/h2>\n<p>Let\u2019s be absolutely clear, no one sensible cares what supporters of other teams think about us. Are Manchester City supporters going to be crying themselves to sleep because of the fact that the rest of the Premier League think their club is bent and they\u2019ve cheated their way to the titles that they\u2019ve won since Sheikh Mansour arrived? I wouldn\u2019t imagine so. Yet there\u2019s also that bit of all of us that wants to protest when we read a fan of another team slagging our club off. Like family members who attack their own siblings but will defend them fiercely when they hear someone else say something horrible about them, Liverpool fans who say Dejan Lovren is a terrible defender will be quick to point out that he made it to the Champions League and World Cup finals last season if they overhear an Evertonian say the exact same thing.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-partner=\"tweetdeck\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">Shaqiri: I signed for Liverpool because I want to win trophies.<\/p>\n<p>Klopp: no, we don\u2019t do that here. Come for your hug &#x1f60e; <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/hashtag\/LVBaba?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">#LVBaba<\/a><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 LVB&#x2122; (@LordVerbinski) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/LordVerbinski\/status\/1062793950094913536?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">November 14, 2018<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\u201cutf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>Whilst it\u2019s not exactly all that important what other people think, therefore, we all know that it would be much nicer to be able to point to J\u00fcrgen Klopp\u2019s silverware when seeing someone say that all he does is give boss hugs. Football is, more than anything else, a tribal affair. There are certain things that bring us all together, with the mourning of the loss of the Leicester City owner recently and the widespread condemnation of the Premier League\u2019s decision to reward Richard Scudamore with a \u00a35 million golden handshake being two recent examples. The reality is, though, that it\u2019s a competitive business and we all want to win. That\u2019s why what other people think of our club and our manager matters. Being able to point to silverware in the cabinet is a crucial weapon in the war of partisanship. If he wins something then, in that sense at least, he\u2019ll have succeeded.<\/p>\n<h2>So Would Some Of Our Supporters<\/h2>\n<p>Just as we shouldn\u2019t really pay any mind to what opposition supporters think, no one whose opinion I respect cares a jot for the hot takes of some of the worst aspects of our own fanbase. When all is said and done, however, the thing we all want more than anything else is to be able to tell them to shut up and have facts on our side. We can point to all sorts of things that the manager has achieved during his time at the club, including getting to three cup finals and creating the most exciting attacking team since the 1980s, but without the actual silverware then the inevitable refrain of \u2018but he hasn\u2019t won anything\u2019 will be thrown back in our faces.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-partner=\"tweetdeck\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">I would love Conte at Liverpool. He\u2019s a serial winner, In his worst season as manager he won the FA CUP. Klopp best as manager he bottled a UCL Final.<\/p>\n<p>\u2014 \u2022 (@PrimeFirmino) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/PrimeFirmino\/status\/1060194801247756289?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">November 7, 2018<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>There is nothing more irritating than smug supporters of your own club who should be behind the manager and players but instead seem to want to cut them down at every possible opportunity. The country has spent the past week or so watching Brexiteers saying how dreadful the deal is that Theresa May has thrashed out with the European Union without actually telling anyone what they\u2019d have done differently. So too do J\u00fcrgen Klopp\u2019s critics want to tell us all how much better other managers would\u2019ve done, without even attempting to look at the context that greeted the German upon his arrival. Given the dreadful state of the club back in the tail-end of 2015, would Antonio Conte or Carlo Ancelotti really have done any better than him?<\/p>\n<h2>It Really IS About More Than Winning Trophies<\/h2>\n<p>Listen, I get that we all want to see this team win something; I\u2019m totally on board with the idea of this excellent set of players being rewarded for their endeavours. Perhaps if J\u00fcrgen Klopp had come into Anfield and set about doing nothing except winning a trophy he\u2019d have achieved exactly that by now. The manager had a much wider remit, however, and needed to essentially rebuild the club from the ground up. Let\u2019s not forget just how bad the atmosphere was around the place when Brendan Rodgers was given his marching orders. There was a disconnect between the supporters and the players, much as there was between the much-vaunted transfer committee and the management structure. The players themselves seemed to have lost all hope, as evidenced by their 6-1 defeat to Stoke City in the final game of the 2014-2015 season.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-partner=\"tweetdeck\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">I see a lot of fans on here complaining about the change in style of play that Klopp has made this season. To be honest im enjoying it. Pragmatic football is what i want as long as it wins us trophies.<\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Mohammed &#x1f3f4;&#xe0067;&#xe0062;&#xe0065;&#xe006e;&#xe0067;&#xe007f; (@LFCMOH) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/LFCMOH\/status\/1062134283874242562?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">November 13, 2018<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>The manager\u2019s now-famous first message to the club\u2019s supporters were that we needed to turn from doubters to believers and that\u2019s because we had lost our way. I think many of us still weren\u2019t over the heartbreak of missing out on the title in such cruel fashion in 2013-2014, meaning that we felt almost as if the club was cursed. The loss of Luis Suarez to Barcelona that summer and the fact that Mario Balotelli was our great hope up front meant that few of us were overly confident about what was to come. Klopp had to come in with a broom and shift all of that negativity at the same time as trying to overhaul a squad that was filled with deadwood. He had to do what Rodgers couldn\u2019t manage and build the plane at the same time as flying it. The really mad thing is that he\u2019s succeeded. Even if he doesn\u2019t win a trophy, J\u00fcrgen Klopp has completely changed almost every aspect of the football club. That\u2019s fairly successful even if nothing else is.<\/p>\n<h2>He May Unfairly Be Thought Of As A Failure<\/h2>\n<p>If the manager ends his Liverpool career without any silverware then there will be aspects of the footballing community that will declare him to have been a failure during his time in England. I honestly think that that would be a remarkably reductive way of thinking about what he\u2019s done at Anfield. Let\u2019s be honest, he\u2019s made it to three finals, two of those with a squad that wasn\u2019t even remotely his own. The simple reality is that al three times we\u2019ve made it to the biggest game in those three different tournaments we just happen to have come up against teams that were either significantly better than us because of their bottomless pit of money, more experienced than is in that tournament or both. Sevilla might not have been a significantly better team than us back in 2016, but they\u2019d won the Europa League at the last two teams of asking with the same manager in the dugout for both, so history was on their side.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-partner=\"tweetdeck\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">Modern day football, hipster managers are more celebrated than managers that actually win trophies&#8230; Pochetinno and klopp case study..<\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Kizuri Monchi Semilore (@DantePasusu) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/DantePasusu\/status\/1061884326869192704?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">November 12, 2018<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>The same was true of Real Madrid two years later, with J\u00fcrgen Klopp himself pointing out that Zinedine Zidane had been able to keep his squad of players relatively the same over the previous three years when they\u2019d won the Champions League. The German had by that point at least created a squad that he was able to call his own, but it still lacked the experience of playing in Europe\u2019s biggest competition, let alone of playing together for more than the campaign that it took to get there. As for Manchester City in the League Cup in 2016, we took the richest team in world football to the lottery of a penalty shoot-out and on another day may well have won it. Does the fact that they scored their penalties and we didn\u2019t, Alberto Moreno had a brain fart and Sergio Ramos deliberately injured Mo Salah and got away with it really mean that J\u00fcrgen Klopp\u2019s time at the club will have been a failure if we don\u2019t win something shiny before he departs for pastures new?<\/p>\n<h2>He\u2019s not Perfect, But He Deserves Respect<\/h2>\n<p>In <a href=\"https:\/\/www.andcouldheplay.com\/jurgen-klopp-whats-he-getting-wrong\/\">my piece last week<\/a> I wrote about how J\u00fcrgen Klopp has made some mistakes of late. His faith in players like Adam Lallana, Joel Matip and Daniel Sturridge when I don\u2019t believe that any of them would get into another top four side\u2019s team is a worry, for example. I also think that he should be actively going for Premier League referees until we start to get some fair decisions going our away, though I think we\u2019re instead going to have to wait until the Video Assistant Referee is introduced next year before that happens. Yet he\u2019s very obviously getting more right than he\u2019s getting wrong, which is evidenced by the fact that we\u2019re two points behind Manchester City in the Premier League and effectively joint-top of our Champions League group.<\/p>\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-partner=\"tweetdeck\">\n<p dir=\"ltr\" lang=\"en\">VAR obviously won\u2019t be perfect, but giving officials access to technology in order to review incidents to make better informed decisions can only be a very good thing. It\u2019ll be a significant net benefit for the Premier League.<\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Joel Rabinowitz (@joel_archie) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/joel_archie\/status\/1063097012659388416?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">November 15, 2018<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/p>\n<p>Given that there are just four pieces of silverware of any worth available during a season, I think it\u2019s utterly ludicrous and remarkably disrespectful to suggest that a manager has failed if they don\u2019t win one of them. Of course we all want a trophy in the cabinet and I think both the manager and his players deserve one. They\u2019ve given us some unbelievable moments over the past couple of years, allowing us all to celebrate goals, excitement and thrilling attacking football. Jos\u00e9 Mourinho has done the opposite of that but he has won a trophy, so would supporters prefer that he was in charge rather than J\u00fcrgen Klopp? I for one would take the equivalent of three days worth of watching glorious football even if there was no trophy at the end of it than nothing but a dirge that was rewarded with a pot. I\u2019m more than aware not everyone will agree, however\u2026<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What do we all want from football? It\u2019s the most important question we can ask, isn\u2019t it? What do we actually expect from the game that we all love so much that we give up hours of our lives to watch? Think about it; a match lasts for 90 minutes plus stoppage and there are thirty-eight of them during the course of a season. If you only watched the club\u2019s league fixtures and ignored cup games and European nights then you\u2019d give up three thousand four hundred and twenty minutes a year, presuming you don\u2019t want to include stoppage time [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":32,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[6],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.andcouldheplay.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1403"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.andcouldheplay.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.andcouldheplay.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.andcouldheplay.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.andcouldheplay.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1403"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/www.andcouldheplay.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1403\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1404,"href":"https:\/\/www.andcouldheplay.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1403\/revisions\/1404"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.andcouldheplay.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/32"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.andcouldheplay.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1403"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.andcouldheplay.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1403"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.andcouldheplay.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1403"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}